Magnetic leadership is like a gravitational force, pulling people towards a vision and inspiring them to reach for the stars. Join Darrin Tulley as he sits down with Roberta Matuson, “The Talent Maximizer®” at Matuson Consulting, to delve into the essence of magnetic leadership. Roberta shares actionable strategies for harnessing magnetic leadership to unlock individual and team potential, boost employee engagement, and navigate the complexities of today’s workforce. She emphasizes the importance of authenticity, taking the time to know your people, and building relationships. If you’re looking to take your leadership skills to the next level and create a more dynamic workplace, this episode is a must-listen!
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Magnetic Leadership: Navigating Today’s Challenges With Roberta Matuson
Magnetic Leadership
Our guest is Roberta Matuson. She is known as the Talent Maximizer. She has been a consultant for over 25 years as the president of Matuson Consulting and has helped leaders in highly regarded companies like General Motors, Takeda Pharmaceuticals, Microsoft, and several small to medium-sized businesses, helping leaders across the world. She’s the author of seven books. She’s so magnetic and so vibrant, She has so much energy.
She wants to share her ideas from her experiences and the many others she’s interviewed and coached. We talk about a lot of challenges in today’s world with some tips on how to overcome them and how to bring out the best in people to create new spaces where they can thrive. Enjoy the show, take it in, and dig in. It’s relevant to help you Live Your Possible and help bring out the best in people all around you every day. Enjoy the show.
Roberta Matuson, welcome to the show. It’s so awesome to have you on the show. How are you doing?
I am great. It’s nice to be here.
I’m glad you’re here even though you’re in Cape Cod and I’m not. I’m a little jealous about that.
Somebody has to be here.
That’s a good point. It is still summertime as we’re recording this. Thanks for being on the show. I see that you are the Talent Maximizer. I’m curious about what you’re up to these days, what you’re passionate about, and what you’re seeing out in the world.
I am up to maximizing talent. That means both maximizing somebody’s personal talent, as well as talent in organizations. I’m seeing a whole different landscape than we probably saw months ago in terms of the shift in the labor force. It’s an exciting time to be helping organizations attract the right people and helping them keep those people.
It’s pretty critical. There are a lot of challenges. The pandemic slowed us down, yet I feel like it’s a lot faster and we have a lot more to do. What do you think about that? What are you seeing out there?
People have put that behind them, and now they’re readjusting the size of their teams. We have a lot of stuff going on. They’re trying to move faster to make up for lost time. That requires different skill sets. It feels like chaos. I think Apple is laying people off. Apple never lays people off, so here we are.
Laying people off helps out in the short term, but in the long term, it hurts the company, the culture, and what’s possible out there. Is it something about whether we are slowing down enough? I feel like we are busier and we have more to do. I’m curious about your take on this. What’s drawing that for us? Why is that happening? Why are we feeling that way? You’re talking to leaders every day. What are they telling you?
They’re telling me that they’re overworked. They have so much stuff on their plate because, as their teams have been cut, the work isn’t going away. They’re asking their team members, and they themselves are being asked to do more with less, while their senior leaders want it faster. It’s pretty stressful. I’m sure you’re reading the headlines about so many mental health issues in the workplace and how people are stressed. When you’re stressed, you’re not going to give your best work. It’s impossible to do that.
When you're stressed, you're not going to give your best work. It's impossible to do that. Share on XWhat’s something that comes to mind for you that you’re helping leaders think through and how to balance that a bit, especially with everything you said? Our well-being matters. We’ve seen all the stats out there. I think 20% of workers feel like their boss actually truly cares about their well-being, and another 50% say, “They’re saying they care about my well-being, but it feels dishonest,” while the rest are unsure.
It comes back to that precious commodity time. Some bosses would love to care about your well-being, but they don’t feel like they have time to care about your well-being. A lot of what I write about in the book Suddenly in Charge: Managing Up, Managing Down, Succeeding All Around, especially the section on managing up, is that you have a manager boss. If you’re one of these people who’s in a situation where the stress levels at work and at home are on red alert, you have to communicate that to your boss. You may think, “Can’t they tell that my hair is on fire?” They’re not looking up. They won’t see your hair. You have to manage your boss and make sure you let them know, “I need to pause here for a minute to catch up.”
I think our world is a little bit more open to that. Folks that I see in the workplace might be a little hesitant to say, “I’m seeing red,” or “I can’t function the way I need to in order to get this work done.” Leaders have to play a big role in embracing what that looks like in those situations. How do you suggest leaders listen and accept that for what it is today? As you know, for Millennials and the different generations coming into our workplace, that’s not a wishlist. This is a demand at this point.
This is a demand from Gen Z, which will soon be your biggest sector of the workforce. It comes back to communication. I’m doing a lot of work with organizations to help their leaders become better communicators and to do a better job of engaging their people, so they have a sense of what the pulse is, what’s going on, when the red lights are flashing. It takes time to develop these relationships. As you and I were talking earlier, lots of people are suddenly in charge. Just because you are anointed a manager or a leader doesn’t mean you know how to lead.
That’s so true. Even the level of understanding of the skills and beyond the skills of how we show up, how we display ourselves, and how we’re there for people so folks need to understand that they actually are in this environment where they can raise their hand or speak up or ask for help. Certainly, the way I was taught to become a leader, I was told, “Get it done. Have all the answers. You’re in charge. You can’t ask for help. Just do it, and work extra time if you have to.”
You startled me because I heard you say, “When I was taught how to be a leader.” I’m like, “You had leadership training? I’m so impressed. Your company invested in that?” You’re saying, “No, I had a leader who told me, ‘Keep moving, dude,’”
It’s a little bit of management training. I wouldn’t say leadership training, which is different. To your point too, there’s a distinction there about learning from leaders before us of what not to do and what to do. It’s how I felt in different situations, and even my own experiences where I failed. I’ve heard you talk about that. I don’t know if you want to share a little bit about that.
People ask me, “Where do you get your material?” Everything that you read that I’ve written, like all over the place when I talk and when I do speeches, it’s real people, it’s real. When you read in my books about the horrific leader I had and how I was abused at work, I learned from her everything about leadership because everything she did, I did the opposite. I was like, “This can’t be right. I’m going to do this. This has to be better.” You brought up a great point that it’s great for our audience to take in. People are watching you and they’re learning from you and they’re learning all the good things and then the bad things, and then they’re going to treat their people in a similar way. Think twice before you do things.
True. We emulate that. We walk the talk of what someone is telling us to do. That’s it. Our society is doing the same thing. There are a lot of people who tell us what we should be doing or believing or thinking. It’s very divisive, and there’s not a lot of room for us to explore how we develop and how people are developing as we think about how to get better in this space. It’s like when we talk about leadership and you talk about it.
You could read so many things, but if you don’t take what you’re sharing and practice this, it’s like telling people to ride a bike by reading the book. You can’t learn how to ride a bike until you get on the bike. How are people taking the time? How are you getting people to take what you’re sharing? You have so much wisdom in your books and the way you display what you’re sharing through your books and stories. How do people take that into practice? Maybe you have an example.
You bring up a great point because, as you and I were talking earlier, I’ve written seven books. I can tell you that as much as I would love your audience to go and buy my books and download them and read them, you’re not going to learn how to be a great leader just by reading a book, or 7 or 10 books. It comes down to having, what I believe, is a strong coach.
When I was suddenly in charge at age 24 and thrown into the executive suite, at least my boss had the common sense to say, “Maybe she doesn’t quite know how things work here in the executive suite.” He gave me a coach. It was the greatest gift that he could have given me. My coach’s name was Rocky, and that was before the movies. He was this older gentleman. When you saw him, believe me, he did not look like Sylvester Stallone, but he threw a punch, and he was great at guiding me.
What I have learned from him, and what I try to do is use my books with my clients as a resource. I guide them, and we work together in an executive coaching role or when they’re part of my group leadership circle and things like that. That’s how they learn because you can read and apply, read and apply, make a mistake, and correct. If you’re just sitting there reading or taking online courses, I have a number of online courses on Udemy and LinkedIn Learning, unless you’re applying these things, you’re just like watching a movie.
Funny you say that about watching a movie. I used to have a boss that would come to my office and be frustrated. He’d say, “Why is everybody acting like they’re not part of the movie? They’re watching the movie. Why can’t they go in and be the star of the movie?”
I take it you weren’t working in Hollywood.
No, I was working for a financial services company. That’s so far from Hollywood.
It could have been a Hollywood movie.
It could have been. The same leader also said, “We need to get uncomfortable with what we’re doing.” Back then, when I was a younger manager or leader, I had exactly the reaction of, “I have to be uncomfortable? I have to be walking on pins and needles?”
“What does that mean?”
I now get it a bit because I listened to a wonderful podcast, Leadership Reimagined, with Janice Ellig and Heather LaValle. Heather LaValle is the CEO of Voya. She talks about being uncomfortable in the way of learning. We’re talking about growth mindset, being uncomfortable and as in your example with a coach, you’re willing to listen and take those punches, which I refer to as love punches. We’re willing to hear it because we want to get better. We want to get stronger. We want to get uncomfortable. We have the ability to move into this space to grow. What do you think about that?
Here’s a prime example. I play pickleball. I will admit it. I’m a fanatic.
You must be pretty good.
I am getting very good. At least some people are choosing me on their teams. I hired a coach to help me. As I was practicing my drop shots, he said, “You’re going to get a lot worse before you get better. When you’re playing, a lot of your shots aren’t going to go in, but if you continue with the strategy that we’ve outlined, you’re going to get a lot better, faster.” That’s what I’ve done.
On the other hand, my spouse, who I love dearly, is not implementing our learnings. He keeps saying, “I don’t understand why I’m not getting better.” Sometimes you’re going to get worse. Even in the game of leadership, you’re going to get a little bit worse, but eventually, if you work through the process, and if you have a good coach, and you have a great strategy, you’re going to come out a winner.
Even in the game of leadership, you're going to get a little bit worse, but eventually, if you work through the process, have a good coach, and have a great strategy, you're going to come out a winner. Share on XThat’s great. I love that analogy too. I understand it’s not just incremental. Maybe at first, you step back, and all of a sudden, you’re getting it. That’s what it sounds like to me.
People on the other side are like, “Who is that?”
Roberta, I want you on my team if we ever play in the Cape, or if you’re in Connecticut. Let’s find the time.
Absolutely. Let’s go get them.
Your books drew me in, no pun intended, about talent, magnetism, and then leaders. What does it take to be a leader that is magnetic? What does that mean? I’ve heard a few references over these weeks. I had Stephen Morris on my show. He talks about it, and that was the first time I understood it. I know you talk about it in your books. I’d love to hear your perspective, so the audience can hear your view.
For me, magnetic leadership is when you have people that will follow you no matter where you go. They’re stuck to you, as opposed to those leaders that repel talent. We all know who they are. It’s the magnetic leaders that I know, they’ve become that way because they’re authentic, and they tell it like it is. They’re compassionate. They take the time to know their people. They’re different. They’re not like the one-and-done guys or gals like, “It’s a transaction and we’re done.” It’s more of a relationship, and they take the time to build that. That’s why, when they go to another company three weeks later, they get this call, “Darrin, how are you doing? What’s new?” Hint, hint.
What’s going on over there?
They’re hoping like, “Please, I need to go with you.”
It’s funny, some leaders might be saying, “Why do you tell people what it is?” There’s a thread that you said after that that’s important about not only being authentic and telling people the way it is, but there’s a genuineness and compassion element of understanding what we’re saying, and it’s connected to that individual. We all receive information slightly differently. I love that too because I’ve heard people say, “I’m so direct.” Okay. You can imagine what that looks like.
I can because I’m from New York. I always say to my clients, “I’m from New York. I can tell you how it is from New York, or I can take the California approach. I can be a little softer. Tell me what works for you.” I think about everyone is like, “Just give me the New York.” I’m like, “Okay, here we go.”
Current Workplace Challenges
What else are you hearing is a challenge out there in the workplace today?
I’m hearing that, especially in the world of recruitment, there are so many people looking for jobs that when there is a job opening, the hiring managers are overwhelmed. They don’t even know how to sort through all these resumes. They’re picking anybody because they want this process to be over. When you do that, that’s when the problems begin because they may not be the right fit, and then you have to spend all this time trying to get them out of the organization. It’s this bad cycle that you create for yourself. It’s about finding the right people for your team, and then inspiring them to live your possibilities, like your book.
You’re right in taking that time again, back to that time thing. It takes time to find the right people and establish what that fit looks like, to your point. Do we have the right values? Values that people want to be drawn into, be pulled into, like your magnetic leadership component. We have to make sure that’s in place. I love that.
I’ve had to hire two, and it’s like you go out into Indeed, you go out to different places, LinkedIn. I love the resources, yet it’s overwhelming.
Yes, it is. Imagine for the job seeker because I don’t know if this is a LinkedIn premium feature, but when you apply for a job, it tells you how many people have already applied. Within the hour, over a hundred applicants, and you’re like, “This is a waste of time.” That person who’s saying that is probably right, and they might’ve been your perfect candidate. That’s very unfortunate.
Even though the nature of it is through the line, even through LinkedIn or different tools, the etiquette has gone to the wayside, for the most part, being on the other side of it. I had looked for some roles after I had left MassMutual, and it’s weird. There are times where you don’t get callbacks or you don’t get follow-up, or you don’t get the decency of what the outcome was. I don’t know what happened because that used to be the way of the world. I don’t know.
I know. I went through six interviews. Could you send me a canned email saying thanks, but no thanks? That’s discouraging. What companies don’t realize is that they’re tarnishing their employer brands. The pendulum has swung back. I’ll admit that. It swung back so that it’s more of an employer’s market, but it is going to swing the other way again. If you look at the demographics. People are going to remember, like, “You’re the company that treated me like that.”
I’m going to tell my son or daughter, “Do not apply there,” or “I’m not going to buy your product. I’m going to get somebody else’s product. I don’t need to give you my business.” It’s important that organizations look at the way candidates are being treated and do a much better job of treating them properly.
Organizations must look at how candidates are being treated and do a much better job of treating them properly. Share on XIt’s a decency level of respect.
If you think about it, everybody is using AI. You can’t get an AI tool to send out a “thanks, but no thanks” note. What’s wrong with you?
I agree with you. That seems like it’s a no-brainer. Don’t send me multiple ones. Just send me one.
In my case, get my name right. I remember when I came out of college, I interviewed with Michelle Oil, a very prestigious opportunity. I went and I was flung to Harkersburg, West Virginia. I’m a gal from Boston and New York, and I’m being sent to this place that I’ve never seen in my life nor experienced. I remember going through this whole day of interviews, and this was 30-plus years ago. I got my rejection letter, and it didn’t even get my name right. It was like, “Dear Robert.” I was like, “I don’t look like a Robert.” Get the names.
It’s getting the basics right. It’s that level of respect and distinction. It’s a lot about how we’re leaning in and how we’re working together, especially to get the right talent, drawing the right talent in. There’s something about how we lean into the work that’s special. I’m working with this company called Be Generative too. One of the things we talk about is around standing in a posture of responsibility for the lives you touch. Imagine if companies took that and believed in it. People have the choice to work in different places, regardless of which market it’s in. Imagine if we took that stance We have a responsibility for the lives we touch, the people we work with, and the extension to our customers and clients.
Please get them to stop saying people are their greatest assets. Please make them stop. If you believe it, great, but if you’re like, “Maybe not,” please stop saying it. That’s where the authenticity comes in. Some organizations are like, “We’re going to pay you well, but we’re going to ask a lot of you.” I’m a-okay with that. Being transparent, they’re telling you like it is, but don’t say, “We’re family. We take weekends off,” when you have people working till midnight every night.
That’s a good point and I think it’s backwards. It’s funny that I feel like we’ve worked together because there was a CEO at another company. That was the first thing they would say out of every town hall. I would sit there as you said. I’m like, “How are we the greatest asset? I’m not a dollar sign, I’m not a tool.” I’d say, “I’m culture. I’m a big impact. All the thousands of people that worked there drove the outcomes.” I think that’s the distinction. Usually, that’s the last thing in the mind of leaders.
It needs to be the first. People and culture drive processes or practices, which drives experiences for them and their customers or clients, which then drives out people wanting to buy and stay with you, and your customers wanting to buy more and stay with you. It’s that cycle that we get to reinvest back into our people that creates this experience that’s magnetic that you talk about.
Profitability, but it’s called profit because they have profit. The company makes money so they can give some to the shareholders, and they can put it back into the company, and they can develop their people, so it is a cycle, and it works.
They can hire you to go speak and bring in some leadership coaching and consulting. It’s so important that we slow down. We need to slow down to do that. We need to recognize our impact and our parts in these efforts. How do you suggest we do that?
Let’s pull the plug. On LinkedIn, I follow this gentleman who started his own advertising agency, and I think he’s doing a fabulous job. He wrote a note on LinkedIn, “Our offices are going to be closed on Friday.” You and I are speaking before Labor Day weekend. He’s like, “For no reason other than our employees deserve an extra day off.” He’s shutting the joint down. They’re going to get a four-day weekend. That’s it, folks. All these people are applauding, including me. Let’s do something for the people and not worry like, “That’s going to cost me $10,000 for that day of pay.”
What’s your take on the four-day workweek? I’ve heard different parts of the world are exploring that. I’ve even heard some are going six days. What do you think of four days?
I will tell you this. I worked a four-day workweek, and I’ll be honest with you. I was exhausted because I would get to work at 7:00 in the morning, and I wouldn’t leave until 7:00 at night or whatever the number was. Just because you’re working a four-day workweek doesn’t mean you’re working 40 hours. If you want to get all your work done, it could take twelve hours, and so then add your commute time. It was pretty exhausting. Before your audience say, “Yeah, but you’re not as young as I am,” I was your age when I did it.
I think it’s not for everyone. It depends on the situation. I’m not saying that it shouldn’t be done. I’m saying that before somebody raises their hand and says, “Give me a four-day workweek,” try it out and see whether your body rhythms work with that. I’m pretty high energy, and I was quite surprised. By the time Friday came around, I was so tired. I couldn’t do anything on my day off.
It’s a good perspective. It’s got to fit for individuals and even companies. There are different companies that need to have folks on-site a certain number of days, and maybe it’s rotated, and we’re all different. That’s a good perspective. How are you feeling about the hybrid environment, and how’s that working as you’re talking with clients? What are you seeing out there about the hybrid environment? How are people resolving this?
I love it. It’s a great recruitment tool because we spend so much time trying to get to and from work, and then when we’re working from home, we can get so much done and we can multitask. I love it, and I have clients that have embraced it, and that gives them a recruiting edge because if your company is requiring everybody to come to the office and I’m recruiting for the same people, and I’m like, “You know what? You can work from home two days a week,” and we’re paying the same, who do you think is going to get the candidate?
I still feel people are struggling with the whole concept. I think there has been a lot of good support about having some time together or creating different ways of communicating so people are having connections, so they’re not lost. The hybrid environment is good. I enjoy spending the time doing 45 minutes’ worth of work versus driving. Sometimes I like to drive because I want to listen to music or make a phone call. I usually reach out to my family and some friends. It’s a good time to do that as I’m singing down the road either way.
You can have a sing-along.
That’s awesome. I keep peppering you with questions about the marketplace. Is that okay?
Yeah, absolutely.
AI & Its Impact
AI, how is it playing out? How are people using AI? How are people connected with AI? How do you see AI in the future?
I’m having a great time. I’m loving AI. There are so many benefits to AI that can make our lives so much easier and can take away the grunt work, things that we don’t like to do, and therefore free us up to do things that are more creative.
I agree. It’s something that we need to truly augment. I think about AI as augmented intelligence, about how we could double down on things that we might enjoy more, we can get creative more, that’s maybe a little bit more complex, that requires humanity to step in in a different capacity. I’m with you. I still have some work to do to get full use of the tools that are out there and help our companies and leaders not to shy away from the tools and figure out how we’re going to use them in a better capacity.
I’m having fun. Sometimes I’ll be writing an article, and I’ve written thousands of articles for Forbes and Fast Company and places like that. There’s a lot of my stuff out there, and sometimes I’m tired. I’m like, okay, write an article on this topic in the voice of Roberta Matuson based on her books, blah, blah, blah, and then it comes back, and I’m like, I don’t feel like I’m cheating. They’re my words, they’re my books, they’re my thought leadership, but then I go back through, and I’m like, “That’s not punchy enough. I’m going to take that out. I’m going to make it brief. I’m going to adjust it to my audience. There are those times when you’re sitting there going, “I don’t even know what to say today.”
It’s a great way to think about it, that 90%, 80% of the content’s there. You’re spending your time on how to make it better for what it is and what’s going on today.
I use it personally for trip planning and recipes. I don’t want to be in the kitchen all night. It’s like, give me a recipe, three ingredients, five minutes, no cleanup.
All of a sudden, I bet your phone lit up with a recipe. Siri is listening.
I bet you. I’ll share it with you guys, and you can put it in the show notes when it comes up.
That’d be great. Also, the school systems. I’m hoping school systems are starting to embrace your approach in that way because when it first came out, my kids who are teenagers were told, “You’re not allowed to use it.” At some point, we need to figure out how to teach the kids how to use it. I love the way you talked about it. It gives us 80%. How do we use 20% maybe to do some contrasting, some critical thinking analysis, something that allows us to start to take it and figure out how we’re going to use it? I feel like that’s the future. What do you think?
It’s good that they’re limiting it in school. You and I have the experience. If I ask AI to compare this concept with that concept, and they give me something that doesn’t make sense, I know it doesn’t make sense. I’m like, no, no, no. Either I didn’t ask the question the right way, or it’s misinterpreted, or it’s a bad tool that I’m using, but if you don’t know what the truth is. I’ll give you an example.
When my children were in school, I’ll never forget this, my daughter would tell me that Wikipedia was a source. Anyone can go in there and change that. It wasn’t until she was in middle school that her teacher said, “You cannot cite Wikipedia.” She had that a-ha moment. I was like, “Probably not a validated source that you should be using.” If you don’t know, and you’re using AI, and it’s telling you what to think, then I think that’s a problem.
Joy At Work
That’s a good point. Thanks for sharing that. What’s your take about joy at work? How would you define it? What does it look like?
I don’t know what it looks like because I think that there isn’t a lot of it these days. I wish we had more joy at work. I wish we were able to slow down a little bit and embrace these moments. The fact that we’re doing something cool in our jobs, and we’re helping to improve whatever we’re doing. I don’t think we celebrate joy enough.
Personal Journey
I agree. I think in the joy, we could see it, but repeat itself, we could recognize it and receive it. Let’s talk about you for a second. People ask you, “How did you get here? How did you get all these experiences that shaped you, that you put into these books?” Are there a couple that come to mind that are like a thread line that says, “This is a big awakening for me?”
When I was 24 years old, I worked for a commercial real estate company in Houston. I came into the office one day only to be called into the president’s office, which was very rare because usually my boss went in, not me. He told me that he had fired her, and so I did what I thought any other 24-year-old would do. I asked for her job, and my boss was an executive. I thought, “I’m 24. I have a year of experience. I have co-op experience. I went to Northeastern. I’m smart, I can figure this out. I deserve this job.”
He gave it to me, and that is the story that’s suddenly in charge. That’s the thread line throughout my work of being tossed into management with little more than a prayer. As a woman in a male-dominated industry, having to figure out how the heck to survive. That’s why I do a lot of coaching and a lot of executive coaching. I enjoy working with women because I know what it’s like to be in the executive suite. I know what it’s like when people are talking over you or taking credit for your ideas. I feel like I can help them and get them to a better place. For me, that’s exciting.
That is exciting. Are people suggesting that’s getting better? I’ve witnessed that firsthand. I’m sure I was not the best partner male leader. I know there are times where maybe there are ideas I should have taken or listened to in a different way instead of maybe somebody else’s.
It might be industry-specific as to whether or not it’s getting better. It’s company-dependent. We still have a long way to go.
We do. I agree. I find it fascinating that some people don’t see that. It’s one of those things.
They’re usually men who are Caucasian. They could be my brother who’s like, “I don’t understand that.” “Of course, you don’t. Has that ever happened to you? By the way, you have four Caucasian sons. It’s not quite happening to your daughter. How would you know?”
To validate your point, part of my journey years ago, I did have this awakening that I was part of the problem. I changed to figure out that privilege that I had been given that I didn’t know I had at the time. It was my responsibility to use it differently. That was the impetus for my journey, which started me writing the book, Live Your Possible: Ignite Your Happy, Authentic Self and Live a Fulfilling Life Rooted in Joy, Inclusion, Love, and Possibilities, starting the company for better cultures, equality, inclusion, joy at work, and possibilities that are there in the space where leaders are welcome and looking to be magnetic in your terms.
I had to realize it. I thought I was one of the good leaders, and I wasn’t good enough. I had these biases I didn’t recognize. I committed to change. I always say that it’s not because I did it right, or that I took all the right steps. It’s just that it takes a minute for us to recognize. We sit there and listen to what we’re saying and what we’re doing.
Are we actually coming across the way we want? Is our identity truly what we’re saying it is? It’s those actions and words, are they tied to something that’s more meaningful? To me, more meaningful is everybody has that voice. I call it a beautiful voice because there are ideas, creativity, and possibilities at the table that I never listened to fully, like the differences that were there, the uniqueness that was there.
Once I did, my world opened up like never before. I only say all that because if you are a White male leader, stop and listen and open your heart up because it’s not about self-preservation. You’re not giving up anything. In fact, you’re going to get a lot more. It’s an expansive world out there if you do this.
It’s important for people to understand that it’s our behaviors that matter, not our intentions. You might intend to treat your female employees the same way as you do your male employees. If your behaviors are showing that that’s not true, that’s what matters. What you’ve done, it sounds like you’ve changed your behaviors, which I imagine took a lot of work. This is not easy to change those habits.
People need to understand that it's our behaviors that matter not our intentions. Share on XI’m still working on it. Let’s be honest. I had 40-plus years of what I was told to be as a leader and what I believed in people because of who they were and where they came from. I needed to change that from that step forward in this every interaction to look at people differently, looking at people with possibilities that are filled with all this joy and opportunity. Who am I to say they’re not able? What it should be is, “I’m going to help people see it through.”
That’s the opportunity we all have. You’re doing that with hundreds of thousands of people, which is amazing. I appreciate you letting me share that too because when we stepped into these conversations and you had those experiences when you were 24. By the way, if you’re 24, I don’t know how many people would have said, “I want that job.” I’m impressed by that, but if you’re 24 or whatever age, there’s always time to step back and grow and get a coach or ask for help and not come in knowing all the answers because when you truly reach out to others, that’s where it becomes very expansive.
I laugh because my daughter is 24, and I’m looking at her going, “If that happened to her, I would be freaking out as her mother.” “You can’t take this job. What do you mean? I’m going to have to help you or whatever.” I don’t know how I did it, but I did. I’d live to write about it.
Live Your Possible
I’m curious about it. I want to hear how that goes too with your daughter. That’s fascinating. I’m curious what your take is. The name of this podcast is Live Your Possible. What comes to mind to you? How would you define it in your terms? It’s your terms, not my terms and how I talk about the show or anything. What comes to mind for you?
The biggest challenge that I see with my clients and I would imagine for a lot of people is those self-limiting beliefs. How can you live your possible when you’re like, “I’m not good enough yet, or I don’t have the skills, or why would they give me that job? If only I had finished my college degree, even though I have more experience than anybody else here.” I think we have to let go and give ourselves permission to dream and ask for what we want. Who knows? You might get it.
We need to dream and we have to put it out there. I agree with you.
You can’t just dream and then wake up and not tell anybody.
Even if you start with one word, I’ll suggest. It could be one of your amazing words that you can have in your books, magnetic or whatever that is for you as a listener. Pick the one word we all know is going to show up. If you want to lead with love, you want to lead with a sense of wonder, whatever the words are, say it every day. “This is what I’m going to be. This is who I’m going to be.” To your point, you have to put it out there. If that ties to your greater meaning or your dreams, even better, it’s going to lead its way there.
Before we close out, I know we’re going to put a bunch of links about your amazing books and how to reach you, Roberta. I don’t know if there’s anything in particular you wanted to share about that. If there’s anything else that’s top of mind that you want to talk through, we’ve covered a lot of ground, but if there are other things that you’re saying, “I want to share this or I want to dive into this,” let’s make sure we do that too.
We need another episode, but I would love to hear from your audience. If they want to write to me directly at [email protected], if they want to connect with me on LinkedIn, please send a note when you make that request. Say, “I heard you on this podcast,” so I know who you are. I don’t go like, “Who’s that?” delete. It’s been an absolute pleasure having this conversation and having the ability to influence your audience and for them to hopefully dream big and make it happen.
Thank you for joining the show. This has been a treat, and thanks for all your wisdom and your stories. I look forward to our next chat and maybe some pickleball too.
Me too.
Take care.
Thank you.
Important Links
- www.MatusonConsulting.com
- www.MatusonConsulting.com/books
- www.Forbes.com/sites/robertamatuson/2024/08/12/retain-talent-develop-your-leaders
- www.Linkedin.com/in/roberta-matuson
- Live Your Possible: Ignite Your Happy, Authentic Self and Live a Fulfilling Life Rooted in Joy, Inclusion, Love, and Possibilities
- Suddenly in Charge: Managing Up, Managing Down, Succeeding All Around
About Roberta Matuson
Roberta Matuson is the “The Talent Maximizer®” at Matuson Consulting.
For more than 25 years, Roberta Matuson, president of Matuson Consulting, has helped leaders in highly regarded companies, including General Motors, Takeda Pharmaceuticals, and Microsoft, and small to medium-size businesses, achieve dramatic growth and market leadership through the maximization of talent.
She’s the author of seven books including, the newly released, third edition of Suddenly In Charge: Managing Up, Managing Down, Succeeding All Around, a Washington Post Top 5 Business Book For Leaders, Can We Talk? Seven Principles for Managing Difficult Conversations at Work, and Evergreen Talent: How to Seed, Cultivate, and Grow a Sustainable Workforce.
Roberta is one of a handful of people who have appeared as a guest of Bill O’Reilly’s on Fox’s O’Reilly Factor, and who left the show unscathed.
